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	<title>Comments for Choral Resource</title>
	<link>http://articles.choirworks.com</link>
	<description>Resources and news for choral conductors, educators, composers and choristers</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 00:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Tabloid claims &#8220;Singing Cures Everything&#8221; by Join a Choir, live a longer fuller life with better health &#124; Choral Music Resource</title>
		<link>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/41#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Join a Choir, live a longer fuller life with better health &#124; Choral Music Resource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/41#comment-65</guid>
		<description>[...] See also: Tabloid claims “Singing Cures Everything” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] See also: Tabloid claims “Singing Cures Everything” [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Re-inventing Handel&#8217;s Messiah by admin</title>
		<link>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/40#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/40#comment-64</guid>
		<description>One of my Twitter friends, 88keys, said, "Messyah Hallelujah - wow! The antiphonal effect, the rhythms...the unexpected intervals on "King of Kings" gave me GOOSEBUMPS. Very cool!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my Twitter friends, 88keys, said, &#8220;Messyah Hallelujah - wow! The antiphonal effect, the rhythms&#8230;the unexpected intervals on &#8220;King of Kings&#8221; gave me GOOSEBUMPS. Very cool!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Instrumentalists = Mercenaries? by admin</title>
		<link>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/32#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/32#comment-52</guid>
		<description>BigBlackBus, You raise a lot of good points. I especially like your last paragraph.

There is no doubt that there are different tiers of musicianship, and that with each tier the level of volunteerism seems to go down. I guess what I was trying to pry into (and I was just letting my thoughts out on the page) was why in community music situations vocalists with degrees are more willing to volunteer than instrumentalists with degrees : both have loans to pay back.

When I say pride, I think what I really mean if fulfillment. If you're going to volunteer to do something you have get a certain level of fulfillment out of it or it is going to drag on your internal resources. I certainly wasn't talking about the kind of pride that goes before a fall. ;-)

money money money . . . sigh

I guess what I'd love to see as a producer (currently working as a volunteer), is people willing to make sacrifices to make great things happen in the future. Almost, everything starts out without funding and it takes a lot of volunteer hours before anyone gets paid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BigBlackBus, You raise a lot of good points. I especially like your last paragraph.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that there are different tiers of musicianship, and that with each tier the level of volunteerism seems to go down. I guess what I was trying to pry into (and I was just letting my thoughts out on the page) was why in community music situations vocalists with degrees are more willing to volunteer than instrumentalists with degrees : both have loans to pay back.</p>
<p>When I say pride, I think what I really mean if fulfillment. If you&#8217;re going to volunteer to do something you have get a certain level of fulfillment out of it or it is going to drag on your internal resources. I certainly wasn&#8217;t talking about the kind of pride that goes before a fall. ;-)</p>
<p>money money money . . . sigh</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;d love to see as a producer (currently working as a volunteer), is people willing to make sacrifices to make great things happen in the future. Almost, everything starts out without funding and it takes a lot of volunteer hours before anyone gets paid.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Instrumentalists = Mercenaries? by bigblackbus</title>
		<link>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/32#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>bigblackbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/32#comment-51</guid>
		<description>That’s an interesting take on it – viewed through an ego perspective.  I don’t know if I would go along with it entirely.  My experience in working with professional and amateur musicians would indicate that it is more about competence than anything else.

A professional musician has worked long and hard to be able to sustain a living as a musician – and we all know how ridiculously hard that is.  Time is money - to have to spend time waiting for the amateurs to get up to the appropriate level – regardless of whether you’re getting paid or not – can be frustrating to say the least!

One of the wonderful things about Music is that it is so accessible – and indeed natural – a voice is a god given instrument that everyone has a chance of utilizing – an instrument requires a completely different mind set.  I’m under no illusions that to be a professional singer you have to go through the same process as a professional player – but at that point – the voice becomes an instrument anyway!

I think what’s at play here is the amateur thinking that they can operate at the same level as the professional.  It’s analogous to the patient in the ER telling the doc that because they saw a diagnosis on “House” or “Grays Anatomy” – that they should be treated in a certain way – or the client in the attorney’s office telling the lawyer how to conduct a deposition; just because you can sing in the shower and your wife thinks you should be on the radio – does not a singer make!

Now, I know that my current gig – Contemporary Rock music – is a little different from the choral world (although I do remember fondly my days as a chorister at Ely Cathedral) –but I think this boils down to basic human nature.  As you mentioned – “…I’ve met both instrumentalists and vocalists who have defied these stereotypes, they were extremely dedicated to their craft and were able to infuse whatever music they were working on with love, passion and grace.”  That to me has nothing to do with whether they are singers, instrumentalists, welders, executives, even mothers and fathers – it’s about their approach to the world – if you meet everyone with an open mind and not judge them before you’ve had a chance to work with them – then life does indeed become a lot easier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s an interesting take on it – viewed through an ego perspective.  I don’t know if I would go along with it entirely.  My experience in working with professional and amateur musicians would indicate that it is more about competence than anything else.</p>
<p>A professional musician has worked long and hard to be able to sustain a living as a musician – and we all know how ridiculously hard that is.  Time is money - to have to spend time waiting for the amateurs to get up to the appropriate level – regardless of whether you’re getting paid or not – can be frustrating to say the least!</p>
<p>One of the wonderful things about Music is that it is so accessible – and indeed natural – a voice is a god given instrument that everyone has a chance of utilizing – an instrument requires a completely different mind set.  I’m under no illusions that to be a professional singer you have to go through the same process as a professional player – but at that point – the voice becomes an instrument anyway!</p>
<p>I think what’s at play here is the amateur thinking that they can operate at the same level as the professional.  It’s analogous to the patient in the ER telling the doc that because they saw a diagnosis on “House” or “Grays Anatomy” – that they should be treated in a certain way – or the client in the attorney’s office telling the lawyer how to conduct a deposition; just because you can sing in the shower and your wife thinks you should be on the radio – does not a singer make!</p>
<p>Now, I know that my current gig – Contemporary Rock music – is a little different from the choral world (although I do remember fondly my days as a chorister at Ely Cathedral) –but I think this boils down to basic human nature.  As you mentioned – “…I’ve met both instrumentalists and vocalists who have defied these stereotypes, they were extremely dedicated to their craft and were able to infuse whatever music they were working on with love, passion and grace.”  That to me has nothing to do with whether they are singers, instrumentalists, welders, executives, even mothers and fathers – it’s about their approach to the world – if you meet everyone with an open mind and not judge them before you’ve had a chance to work with them – then life does indeed become a lot easier.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Singing Ed Resource : UK&#8217;s &#8220;Sing Up&#8221; by singingman</title>
		<link>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/29#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>singingman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/29#comment-49</guid>
		<description>I applaud this 'new' initiative by the UK government, but ...

Doubtless it can improve social skills, memory, etc., but what happens when the children leave the school environment?

It seems to me that this is another case of pendulum swinging: there was once vibrant music provision in all UK schools which has since been cut back, and now the government want to re-instate it. But how will this affect the place of music in people’s lives as they get older? It’s all very well pumping money and effort into kids’ 12 or so years at school, but what then? Why do people not keep up singing through their 20s and 30s in general?

There are so many initiatives these days for particular, well-defined groups like the young, the disadvantaged and the old. But what about the people in the middle? All that money and effort goes into introducing young people to music, then they’re left to their own devices when they leave school. Choirs are often seen as a little fuddy duddy and formal, and evening classes are for grown ups (besides, who wants to go back to studying so soon?!). There are youth orchestras, youth bands, youth choirs, young people’s workshops, song writing initiatives for young people, studios for kids, etc. etc. But then what?

Apparently the dark ages of music and singing in schools is over. No more: “stand at the back and mime”, or “you’re not good enough to be in the choir”. But I still get young adults coming to me who were thoroughly put off by their experience of music teaching in schools.

It could be argued that singing in a group is just not cool enough for young people once they’ve left school. But what about all the role models in pop music of boy and girl bands singing in close harmony? And how come that when people do eventually come back to singing, they say how much they’ve missed it?

Answers please, on a postcard to …

singingman

From the front of the choir: http://singing-thoughts.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud this &#8216;new&#8217; initiative by the UK government, but &#8230;</p>
<p>Doubtless it can improve social skills, memory, etc., but what happens when the children leave the school environment?</p>
<p>It seems to me that this is another case of pendulum swinging: there was once vibrant music provision in all UK schools which has since been cut back, and now the government want to re-instate it. But how will this affect the place of music in people’s lives as they get older? It’s all very well pumping money and effort into kids’ 12 or so years at school, but what then? Why do people not keep up singing through their 20s and 30s in general?</p>
<p>There are so many initiatives these days for particular, well-defined groups like the young, the disadvantaged and the old. But what about the people in the middle? All that money and effort goes into introducing young people to music, then they’re left to their own devices when they leave school. Choirs are often seen as a little fuddy duddy and formal, and evening classes are for grown ups (besides, who wants to go back to studying so soon?!). There are youth orchestras, youth bands, youth choirs, young people’s workshops, song writing initiatives for young people, studios for kids, etc. etc. But then what?</p>
<p>Apparently the dark ages of music and singing in schools is over. No more: “stand at the back and mime”, or “you’re not good enough to be in the choir”. But I still get young adults coming to me who were thoroughly put off by their experience of music teaching in schools.</p>
<p>It could be argued that singing in a group is just not cool enough for young people once they’ve left school. But what about all the role models in pop music of boy and girl bands singing in close harmony? And how come that when people do eventually come back to singing, they say how much they’ve missed it?</p>
<p>Answers please, on a postcard to …</p>
<p>singingman</p>
<p>From the front of the choir: <a href="http://singing-thoughts.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://singing-thoughts.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on What is Musical Literacy? by Choral Music and the Fringe &#124; Choir Works Resource</title>
		<link>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/6#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Choral Music and the Fringe &#124; Choir Works Resource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://articles.choirworks.com/archives/6#comment-3</guid>
		<description>[...] Frankly, I feel that is healthy. It encourages new life and new growth. Choral musicians don&#8217;t tend to think of composers as men who are dead, but men and women they could actually meet face to face someday. What could be better than that? or more encouraging for them to try their own hand at writing music? (see my rant on Musical Literacy) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Frankly, I feel that is healthy. It encourages new life and new growth. Choral musicians don&#8217;t tend to think of composers as men who are dead, but men and women they could actually meet face to face someday. What could be better than that? or more encouraging for them to try their own hand at writing music? (see my rant on Musical Literacy) [&#8230;]</p>
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